tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post8398228190961064649..comments2024-03-05T15:40:30.396-06:00Comments on The Joy of Dirty Dishes: Review: "The Good Wife as the Help-Mate" (The Good Wife, Part 1)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-90003728886237239672024-03-05T15:40:30.396-06:002024-03-05T15:40:30.396-06:00I stumbled across this looking for info on Fr. Tre...I stumbled across this looking for info on Fr. Trenham (long story) and was delight to find your blog. I saw you mention that you don’t read the comments but I hope you see this - I love what you wrote. I also write about being Orthodox and a feminist. I hope you read it and I hope we can be internet friends. https://open.substack.com/pub/thecrankyorthodox?r=98z7&utm_medium=iosAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-57658258123405992032023-10-18T14:00:39.550-05:002023-10-18T14:00:39.550-05:00Why should anyone pay any attention to Bible's...Why should anyone pay any attention to Bible's babblings about gender roles, when the book in question supports slavery, genocide and sexual slavery?J. L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09339574697716012556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-41283908131624480532023-04-27T21:26:23.022-05:002023-04-27T21:26:23.022-05:00To put it another way, a man can have 1, 5, 10 chi...To put it another way, a man can have 1, 5, 10 children of his own in the span of a single year, via multiple women. A woman can only have as many as she can bear in one term. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-34659960752066486182023-04-27T21:20:16.566-05:002023-04-27T21:20:16.566-05:00I think you need to retake biology. It’s only poss...I think you need to retake biology. It’s only possible for men and women together.<br /><br />It’s worth noting, however, that a single man and multiple women (wives ) can make many babies at once. On the other hand, a single woman and multiple men can only make as many as one womb can hold. So who is more fruitful for multiplication, man or woman?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-74692505549054943292022-07-20T23:33:59.162-05:002022-07-20T23:33:59.162-05:00He also calls men to love even if their wives aren...He also calls men to love even if their wives aren’t obedient.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-51132316474886021202020-09-09T22:49:50.201-05:002020-09-09T22:49:50.201-05:00Sorry so I realize I didn't recognize the good...Sorry so I realize I didn't recognize the good in what you attempted here. So I must commend you for trying to live up to the scriptures to the best of your abilities. When John the Baptist called for repentance, the word in greek means to change ones mind or to turn around. I stand by my initial comment, but it sounds like maybe you tried to turn around without fully changing your mind. Ask God to show you the truth and you will find it.Jorge Nonellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574841082051822510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-90954419277249047852020-09-09T00:45:52.578-05:002020-09-09T00:45:52.578-05:00I must commend you sister on having the strength a...I must commend you sister on having the strength and courage to be a woman as our lord God calls you all to be. Not letting all the feminist rot we have all been inundated with compromise your faith! Thank you for sharing your perspective. Jorge Nonellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574841082051822510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-3281281897895650982020-09-09T00:43:55.155-05:002020-09-09T00:43:55.155-05:00Seems like you're making an idol of your femin...Seems like you're making an idol of your feminist ideal and your idea of "equality", and you're putting it over God. You're not willing to accept the bibles clear teachings on gender roles because it goes against what you hold more dearly.Jorge Nonellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09574841082051822510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-48348047000180578572020-03-24T21:14:16.600-05:002020-03-24T21:14:16.600-05:00Agreed. Women who do not have pious and biblical h...Agreed. Women who do not have pious and biblical husbands tend to fall into this feminist trap of seeing every biblical teaching of gender roles as "anti-feminist". Sister, I know, I have been there. I was married to a man who was not biblical, though neither was I. I met my husband, who AFTER our marriage identified as Orthodox and converted me, through my love or him, and his for me. What this ALL lacks is "equal footing". If you both don't start out as pious, biblical people, things will seem unfair when you try to apply these teachings. I don't disagree! If you'd read this to me three years ago I would have run screaming. Husband as head ALSO means husband bears the brunt and takes ALL responsibility. This makes the wife's job infinitely less worrisome and stressful. If this is not the case, HUSBAND is doing it wrong, not wife. However, when women are unhappy, they like to blame the men and not themselves. It may not be our responsibility to ne head but it IS our responsibility to be guide. And we have to gude well, with persuasion. Generally, women are smarter and more patient. We have to use that to GUIDE our husbands. Just like they use their strength and stability to protect and support us. It's all mutual. Separate but EQUAL. Until we let go of this feminist (pardon the phrase) butthurt, we'll never be what God calls us to be as women. If YOU picked a man who doesn't heed God's calling... that's YOUR failing, it doesn't give you the right, as an Orthodox woman, to question the teachings of God. Perhaps you should have chosen a better husband.Trbobitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08978243818309040654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-81177821351654638832020-01-08T09:19:59.338-06:002020-01-08T09:19:59.338-06:00I think you are seeing and hearing things in Fathe...I think you are seeing and hearing things in Father Josiah Trenham's teaching which are simply not there. I have looked through your article trying to understand what it is exactly that offends you so much, and I just cannot make the same logical connections as you have. In other words your conclusions following his quotes are far stretched and you are not objectively hearing what he is actually saying. You probably have past traumas that color your perception and make you misunderstand what you hear. Anyway, I would be careful criticizing a priest. The Bible says judge not, but you are judging and reading far more into it than is actually there. And you are making other people conflicted, you are making others judge Fr Josiah, and in short your lengthy and time consuming posts are not edifying. <br /><br />PHILIPPIANS 4:8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.<br /><br />If you have the correct focus, you could learn something from any lecture. Even if there is something wrong in a teacher's understanding, you can overlook that .1% to benefit from the 99.9% of that which is helpful and edifying. But if you only look for mistakes and things that offend you, you will get nothing except that which you look for. When you are offended and your emotions are stirred up, you can look into yourself and try to understand why - what is the root cause? Because it's something much deeper in your case than Fr Josiah's words.<br />Andrew Ostahttp://www.andrewosta.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-37154748785276949782020-01-06T17:06:24.642-06:002020-01-06T17:06:24.642-06:00Hello, just wanted to mention that I really apprec...Hello, just wanted to mention that I really appreciate reading your thoughts and posts! I've been Orthodox for fifteen years, and I definitely struggle with these issues and attitudes in the Church as well. My family and I are in a good parish with a good priest now, but our previous one were big fans of Fr. Josiah and his approach, and it was extremely challenging and depressing for us. I also know from experience how hard it is the write about this stuff and maintain any semblance of a healthy spiritual state, and I admire you for doing it. Best wishes!Peculiarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15849337750990440147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-82241040401987735392019-12-14T07:50:43.785-06:002019-12-14T07:50:43.785-06:00Is this secret obsession comment SPAM? Perhaps it ...Is this secret obsession comment SPAM? Perhaps it should be reviewed?Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13369455411904391854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-19050513946557214992019-10-24T21:58:14.722-05:002019-10-24T21:58:14.722-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.His Secret Obsessionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590864359217595945noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-71576644914188986922019-06-22T12:29:16.384-05:002019-06-22T12:29:16.384-05:00You do not need an in depth analysis in order to a...You do not need an in depth analysis in order to avoid the straw man, You merely need to address what he has actually said and written. Since you have read his extensive works and listened to his lectures, you surely know he has taught on Righteous Deborah and St Lydia. Why ask the question, when you can quote what he has actually said?<br /><br />And you have not responded to my pointing out that St. John Chrysostom (of which it is obvious that Fr. Josiah draws greatly from) does not treat St. Pauls illustration as a two way street. He rebukes men to endure all manner of abuse from their wives as Christ endured all manner of abuse for our sake and called it love. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-17215013113271731782019-06-21T23:31:16.480-05:002019-06-21T23:31:16.480-05:00I'm not sure you understand what the term stra...I'm not sure you understand what the term straw-man means. And actually, I have listened to his lectures and read his books all the way back to his articles in Divine Ascent magazine, which I'm guessing is probably longer than you've been orthodox. But why would I waste my time writing a detailed critique of his works in a simple comment on a blog post?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-38926750475888997342019-06-21T19:23:37.390-05:002019-06-21T19:23:37.390-05:00Fr bless,
With a PHD in patristics, you should kn...Fr bless,<br /><br />With a PHD in patristics, you should know better than to attack some straw man of Fr. Josiahs anthropology. You dont quote him, and your response reveals you have neither listened to the Good Wife or the Good Husband lectures. <br /><br /> "And if the husband does not live up to this calling, why would we expect his spouse to put up with him?"<br /><br />Because St. Paul tells us that is the will of God, and St John Chrysostom tells us that God wills the man to do the same when the wife does not live up to her calling. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-55905195225786387772019-06-21T14:36:08.060-05:002019-06-21T14:36:08.060-05:00Can you please elaborate on what of Fr. Josiah'...Can you please elaborate on what of Fr. Josiah's anthropology you disagree with? Asking for my own musings on complementarianism vs. egalitarianism/et al.Kristennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-2807907275239259212019-06-21T14:20:43.148-05:002019-06-21T14:20:43.148-05:00This is very insightful. I also like the fact the...This is very insightful. I also like the fact the fact the verse in Ephesians from right before the marriage reading says to all Christians in general, "submit to one another..." Apparently, humbling ourselves before each other is for everybody in the Church, not just us ladies.Jennynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-90161132734916613472019-06-21T10:31:14.543-05:002019-06-21T10:31:14.543-05:00I am an Orthodox priest (with a PhD in Patristics,...I am an Orthodox priest (with a PhD in Patristics, no less), and I disagree entirely with Fr Josiah's anthropology. And no, I'm not a progressive liberal or someone trying to convert Orthodoxy into Episcopalianism with incense. I am rooted in the Patristic reading of the Scriptures, and abhor fundamentalist readings of the text.<br /><br />It is possible to say that man and woman are created equal, though different, without implying any of the current political baggage, and without the Protestant fundamentalist baggage of male primacy. But what does the Bible really say about male-female relationships, and how do the Fathers interpret this? <br /><br />Using Ephesians 5 as a model for marriage (since it is one of the official readings of every Orthodox wedding), we come to understand that any view of male "headship" is merely spiritual headship. It does not mean that women cannot work outside the house (what would say of St Lydia?); or that women cannot be fiery and strong (what about Deborah the Judge of Israel?). <br /><br />So what does "spiritual headship" mean? The husband is supposed to lead by example, by becoming like Christ, and by constantly dying to himself for the sake of his wife. This example is responded to by the wife who likewise lives selflessly for her husband. In such a way, marriage becomes a mutual giving of self to the other. Following the schema of St Maximos the Confessor, when male and female enter into harmony, they overcome their differences and unite human nature in themselves. <br /><br />But St Paul's image leads to another implication. If a man forsakes this calling, through his selfishness, there is no reason to expect that his wife will show him respect, or that she'll be motivated to live selflessly for him. She can choose to anyway (as an inspired act of humility), just as a husband can choose to stay with a wife who is unfaithful to him. But we shouldn't set this ideal as the standard. If Christ's self-sacrificial example is the example of male, and the Church's selfless offering to Christ the example of female, then it is certainly a two-way street. And if the husband does not live up to this calling, why would we expect his spouse to put up with him?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-17835638879607204092019-06-20T22:26:35.574-05:002019-06-20T22:26:35.574-05:00First a note: A priest at my parish recently gave ...First a note: A priest at my parish recently gave a talk on the sacraments. During this talk, he related that primordial Adam was not male, but neither male nor female. Genderless. According to this actual-and-for-real-priest, primordial Adam was without gender and only became male when Eve was created female. Male and female were created at the same time. For each other. Marriage is therefore the reassembling of the male and female aspects of humanity who mirror primordial Adam when unified. So there goes that whole man came first thing....<br /><br />Anyway, as an Orthodox woman who was emotionally abused by a boyfriend who was exposed to Father Trenham's brand of gender theory during his convert phase, I feel your pain. Ideologies like this not only commit the sin of making no f#$%*&^ sense (seriously, they fall apart when subjected to even the slightest intellectual rigor, and given that one of the things I have always loved about Orthodoxy is that it actually makes sense, I find garbage that doesn't make sense appropriating the "mystery" defense to be deeply offensive... moving on) they are extremely damaging because they take a woman's safe harbor, her relationship with Christ, and twist it into a nightmare in which she is made to feel deviant just for being a fully fledged person in her own right, complete with opinions and interests and vocations and talents that deserve to be cultivated and explored. You know, for being a completely normal person who wants to do completely normal person things. It's extremely cruel and extremely damaging, and any woman who has been on the receiving end of that kind of spiritual violence knows exactly what I am talking about. Just know that you're not alone, there are more of us than there should be. I'll always have a complicated relationship with Orthodoxy, I think, and I had to take some time away from it. When I did come back, my new priest reaffirmed to me that teachings such as Father Trenham's are not in line with Orthodox Tradition. Please keep writing! It's important for the health of the Church that these abberant ideologies are challenged because they are causing real harm. I look forward to reading the rest of your reviews, and your picture captions made my night!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-56419742008508394252019-06-06T21:24:08.764-05:002019-06-06T21:24:08.764-05:00I did read the entire thing. This individual'...I did read the entire thing. This individual's views are not biblical. They are just an excuse for a abusive individual to domineer and treat his wife like dirt.Mama Etnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06349767166985886858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-37723278547067419492019-06-06T03:23:36.580-05:002019-06-06T03:23:36.580-05:00So sorry you fell for this creep's repulsive i...So sorry you fell for this creep's repulsive ideas. They are not particularly Christian or even biblical--how is a MAN going to "be fruitful and multiply"? This is biologically possible only for women.<br /><br />I stopped reading at that point. ellenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12637694149314439993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1915141598268658575.post-79177256095756150982019-06-05T12:46:32.567-05:002019-06-05T12:46:32.567-05:00But the relative peace of soul didn’t last, becaus...But the relative peace of soul didn’t last, because I could never quite shake the shame I felt at the idea that God created women inherently inferior to men—inferior, in the sense synonymous with subordinate, "of a lower station or rank." <br /><br />You can say these things are synonymous all you like, that doesn't make them synonymous. I am subordinate to my Priest, in the sense that I see him as higher up in the church hierarchy than I am, but not for one second do I think that this makes him superior to me in some metaphysical sense. All human beings are equal in worth, in value. This doesn't make hierarchy illegitimate! <br />Clearly husband and wife are intended to be fellow pilgrims on the path of the Christian life, operating towards a shared goal: a life continuously moving towards Christ. <br />As an aside, the conception of the husband as "King" can be hard to swallow given all of the anti-monarchy rhetoric we hear living in America. It's important to remember that a husband as "King" is supposed to exemplify the best of Kingship: being loving, caring, wise in decision making, willing to lay down his life for his people, etc. When we expect our husbands to model their Kingship after, say, Louis XIV, we have some severe severe problems. Better models exist, like King Alfred the Great, or Vladimir the Great. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com